Thank you sir, may I have another?
Meet James Seng, an assistant director with IDA, internet pioneer, Tomorrow editor and total fucking troll.
James, unlike you, I'm open to criticism and I won't go into hissy fits over whether or not a comment is 'constructive'. Here's a tip, though: if you're going to stomp around in people's comment boxes acting the big man, it's only civilised to respond when the person you're slinging shit at takes the time to ask you what exactly has you so riled. Yes, I know being civilised isn't exactly at a premium in the government sector (except when it comes to people with more impressive job titles and later stage hair recession than you), but in addition to making you a big ol' jerk, pointedly ignoring my rather innocuous question fingers-in-ears, lalalalala-I'm-not-listening style while making awkward sidelong jabs in the course of insulting other readers makes you look a little—dare I say it?—juvenile.
Speak when spoken to or go to your room. Thanks much.
Edit: I take it all back. James Seng is a classy, classy guy:
You heard the man: his troll-fu is strongest. There's nothing for me to do now but bow before his superior mastery of teh internets.
James, unlike you, I'm open to criticism and I won't go into hissy fits over whether or not a comment is 'constructive'. Here's a tip, though: if you're going to stomp around in people's comment boxes acting the big man, it's only civilised to respond when the person you're slinging shit at takes the time to ask you what exactly has you so riled. Yes, I know being civilised isn't exactly at a premium in the government sector (except when it comes to people with more impressive job titles and later stage hair recession than you), but in addition to making you a big ol' jerk, pointedly ignoring my rather innocuous question fingers-in-ears, lalalalala-I'm-not-listening style while making awkward sidelong jabs in the course of insulting other readers makes you look a little—dare I say it?—juvenile.
Speak when spoken to or go to your room. Thanks much.
Edit: I take it all back. James Seng is a classy, classy guy:
As I said, I have my fun as been a troll. I was laughing all my way doing my commenting while you on your side is fuming. That's the whole purpose of being a troll. And most importantly, you bite (as in this post) haha.
You heard the man: his troll-fu is strongest. There's nothing for me to do now but bow before his superior mastery of teh internets.
posted by Nicholas at 1:56 PM
37 Comments:
If you hadn't written this post, I'd never have seen the trollish comments from jseng. I'd say I'm disappointed, but that even presumes that his opinion matters in the grand scheme of things. And to refer to the talk that goes on behind your back -- I thought the 'lurkers support me in email' tactic died the way of the dodo.
A blog that nobody reads is still a blog. Some of us don't seek external validation for our existence.
Uh seriously speaking, that jseng guy doesn't write like the real jseng at all, just so you know. Imposter perhaps?
James, don't act like you're speaking on behalf of others when it's your own narrow-minded perspective. Who is this 'us' that you purport to represent?
And you need serious lessons in irony. It would change your view of what 'elitist' and 'narrow-minded' really means.
i also was wondering if that was really Jseng from Tomorrow.sg.
at the same time, i think given that you wrote a really objective post, those comments weren't warranted in the first place. and they were so rude as well.
well, just a little disappointing. it would be nice if people could leave the personal insults out if they're not warranted.
La Idler (if you're the same one from idledays.net), since you're also involved at tomorrow, it shouldn't be too difficult to ask The Real James Seng (please stand up) if he's also the jseng blogging here.
I can't say if this sounds like the one from tomorrow.sg, except they both have a interesting - but not similar - way of dealing with criticism.
Akikonomu, I love that link. I think I'll add that to the post. The voice feels exactly the same to me; it'd be nice if this jseng really were an impostor, but I wouldn't take odds on it.
Maybe he never quite got over your little critique of Tomorrow.sg.
There's really not much point in arguing with a defensive little online troll, anyway, so for the sake of your comments sections, I hope you never have to hear from him again, explanation or no.
Yes. It is me. No need to guess. *laugh*
Unlike you, I understand the concept of identity. But that's beside the point here.
Rude? Sorry, when you called someone suckage, that is rude. So don't expect civil in return.
Real classy. Someone's personal identity is just a bit too wrapped up with the site itself. So much so for objectivity. Oh wait, there never was any was there?
JSeng quotes
"Hmm. If you are a 'serious blogger' but you no have no one reading your blog, are you still a blogger?"
Says it all really. So personal thoughts and opinions is a popularity contest?
That link from Akikonomu was a startling eye-opener.
there's a difference between stating or defending one's view amicably and just being nasty.
James: Unlike you, I understand the concept of identity.
Do you really? I know Adri and La Idler and mb and Mr Miyagi do, but I'm not so sure about you.
Rude? Sorry, when you called someone suckage, that is rude.
There we go: clear evidence that you don't, in fact, understand the concept of identity. Tomorrow != you. Criticism of Tomorrow, however harsh != a personal grudge against you. Do you understand this?
So don't expect civil in return.
There's rude and then there's rude.
As I said, I have my fun as been a troll. I was laughing all my way doing my commenting while you on your side is fuming. That's the whole purpose of being a troll. And most importantly, you bite (as in this post) haha. Thanks, and it has been fun.
"What you do not wish upon yourself, extend not to others."
Eat your own medicine.
Flabbergasted. Absolutely so.
As I said, I have my fun as been a troll. I was laughing all my way doing my commenting while you on your side is fuming.
Hardly 'fuming'. On a 0-10 scale on my trusty flame-o-meter, this little spat is barely a 3.
That's the whole purpose of being a troll. And most importantly, you bite (as in this post) haha. Thanks, and it has been fun.
Cheers. It's been a barrel of monkey laughs for me, too; it's not every day I get to see a real live 1|\|t3r|\|3t p10|\|33r act like a 13-year-old ezboard user.
"What you do not wish upon yourself, extend not to others."
Eat your own medicine.
Because plastering personal attacks all over someone else's comment box is exactly the same as posting a negative review of a site someone's an editor at on one's own blog. Of course.
This is a very long comment:
James
http://buttermilk.blogspot.com/2005/05/cheese-poem.html#111781234458369367
http://buttermilk.blogspot.com/2005/05/cheese-poem.html#111785553801875846
those comments above contain the use of 'us' and 'we'.
You really have to stop this habit of using the Royal First-Person approach when refering to yourself. I know it's a habit, because I do it too from time to time. I mean, I don't really want ppl associating Tomorrow.sg with the shite I post on my blog, right? What one editor does in his own freetime does not represent the other editors.
From now on, use 'I', 'Me' and 'My' ok?
Nic
Thank you for your constructive and well thought out comments on Tomorrow. Given your many literary talents(you sure can write!) and spare time, why not try to set up an online space more accessible to minds similar to yours?
I like the idea of your Whatsnot Magazine(I read it from end to end) but am afraid that it does not really appeal to the average joe user. Why not take it a step further and make it an almost daily thing with regular contributions?
We could help you get started if you need any help.
Rick, respect is earned, not given like a cheap piece of costume jewelry. You did rile James, so if you want to play, then you have to prepare to pay.
Everybody
I hope the buck stops here. This has gone far enough. I'm sure it has been unpleasant for both James and Nic. So let's bury the hatchet now by not mentioning this again. EVAR.
Caleb: Thank you for your constructive and well thought out comments on Tomorrow.
You're welcome. Thank you for taking it in the spirit in which it was given.
Given your many literary talents(you sure can write!) and spare time, why not try to set up an online space more accessible to minds similar to yours?
I like the idea of your Whatsnot Magazine(I read it from end to end) but am afraid that it does not really appeal to the average joe user. Why not take it a step further and make it an almost daily thing with regular contributions?
Thanks for the kind words. What you suggest is an interesting idea (though I suspect it would appear too much like Tomorrow.sg: The Elitist's Cut), but isn't really compatible with the aims of the Whatnot. The Whatnot is a small literary ezine like any other, and I accept the audience limitation inherent in that. I posted the call for submissions here on my blog to try and get a few good subs from readers, some of whom I know can write, not in any hope of making it the Next Big Thing. There's value in being or creating the Next Big Thing (and the Current Big Thing etc.), certainly, but that's not where my first priorities lie.
I hope the buck stops here. This has gone far enough. I'm sure it has been unpleasant for both James and Nic. So let's bury the hatchet now by not mentioning this again. EVAR.
I know you mean well, man, but the way you phrase this doesn't sit right with me. Whether or not things have gone too far is not your call to make. As far as I'm concerned, this little episode has nothing to do with Tomorrow at all, however hard James tries to make it out to be otherwise. It's a clear-cut case of him going postal in the comments section of my own blog with no provocation from me. I certainly won't hesitate to mention it if I ever have reason to make reference to him again. The troll quotes, in particular, are keepers.
i wanted to believe in james seng and the powers that he represents, for awhile. but now i really want nothing to do with him.
-brandon
It's good to read Cowboy Caleb's comment - if anything to clarify that jseng speaks for himself and not for all editors. I can't help but feel that he is too tied up with the project on a personal level to have any semblance of objectivity when it comes to criticisms, constructive or not, against Tomorrow.sg.
One of the ironies of such outlandish displays of troll-fu is that it only made jseng look worse for the wear. That he would stoop so low and lob salvos at a blogger whom he clearly does not respect. The joke's not on Nic nor on those who sided with him here.
Just when I was starting to forget about that unhappy incident on Tomorrow, Akikonomu had to go and dig it out.
Honestly, I was never out to criticize anyone or anything right from the beginning, but come on, what's the point of arguing on the internet? Give this a rest Nic.
You are too afraid of confrontation. James's behaviour toward you on that thread was unjustifiable; anyone can see that. There's no reason for you to regret it. That you feel the need to state that you were 'never out to criticize anyone or anything' only shows how much people like him can do to damage the very idea of criticism.
Sure I'll give it a rest, assuming he doesn't come back with another bucket of shit to redecorate my comment box with, but if he does, I'm not going to force myself into Care Bear mode. Conflict is natural in a world where people act like flaming douchebags.
I like the idea of your Whatsnot Magazine(I read it from end to end) but am afraid that it does not really appeal to the average joe user. Why not take it a step further and make it an almost daily thing with regular contributions?
Nick, if you ever start to appeal to the average joe user, I swear I will stop reading your rubbish. This is a threat.
Love,
yet another of Nick's narrow-minded and elitist readers
"What one editor does in his own freetime does not represent the other editors."
"You did rile James, so if you want to play, then you have to prepare to pay."
This are comments uncalled for.
1. As an editor of tomorrow.sg, JSeng opens his mouth in public (even if it is as a person) about tomorrow.sg, he represents tomorrow.sg, end of the story. That excuse don't cut out anywhere especially in the business world.
2. You have to accept opinions and criticism just and unjust.When people give their suggestions and opinions which you dislike, you should not say things like "shove it! if you dun like our site, dun look at it!", "You pay if you provoke us etc.", "Our way or the highway" kind of stuff.
I understand that you are doing this out of your free time and you are not paid for doing that. Fine, I accept that and I don't expect Ritz Carlton standard and of course you are free to have fun and be light hearted, but Tomorrow.sg is in the papers and you state that your website want to 'represent all bloggers in Singapore, etc etc'. You are even organizing a blogging conference for good measure.
Based on that, people do expect a minimum level of professionalism even if you deal with unjust opinions and criticisms.
What is worse is that you put your profiles as "Consultant", "Assistant Director" etc it not only speaks badly of the people running Tomorrow.sg but also speak badly of your actual organizations and occupations.
If you are not up to it. Don't do it.
J
Anyway I will be busy again and I won't participate in any future debates/ slinging matches etc.
CC, JS, I hope your site will do well in the future.
J
Yes, I admit I'm afraid of confrontation as you put it. I'm very, very scared. Petrified even. I just couldn't understand the significance of partaking in such a trivial (or should I say childish?) 'argument'.
We argue we call each other names. One of us grows tired of it. The guy who gave the last response wins. Whoopee. And life is great.
Also, I would love to go to the Bloggers Convention. Average joes conform ya?
hey where can i get flamed buttermilk by jseng?
Zhi yang, don't turn this uglier. Frankly I thought you brought up a very valid point on tomorrow.sg, but you limped out with your tail between your legs when things got ugly at no fault of yours.
I applaud Nick for speaking his mind, he took the heat and didn't resort to cowardice when he received flak for it.
We need more Nicks around here.
- C
Taking the heat and not resorting to cowardice is not the same as cheerfully aggravating the situation and replying in like.
This flame war no fun one. James Seng just digs himself in deeper and deeper with every comment, it's like watching one of those WWF lamb-to-the-slaughter matches between Yokozuna and A Guy In Red Briefs.
Gabriel, you imply that 'aggravating the situation and replying in like' is somehow irresponsible (or god knows what), but what precisely makes it so? I'm not creating earthquakes in Aceh by pointing out that James has his head up his arse and that the two aren't so much different anyway. A small child doesn't die every time I call James a twat. Nor is the fate of the free world at stake. Why shouldn't I fight nutcases with napalm? I'm a writer, not bloody Gandhi.
But surely there is something suspect in throwing fuel onto the flames and then blaming others for starting or adding to the conflagration
Nick is a kid. kids are sometimes excitable.
James is a disgrace to 32 year old working adults. He should have more class.
Perhaps I've got my cause-and-effect wrong but responding robustly on your own blog to totally unprovoked comment flamers is hardly throwing fuel onto the flames.
God knows I sometimes find Nicholas a little more aggressive than I feel he should be, but not here. Not by a long shot.
Hi, this is my first time visiting your blog... found it through a link on a friend's site. I enjoyed reading it. :)
Just wanted to say that hving read the cheese poem post and the first and his reply to it... though I have no idea who jseng is apart from what I gathered from your site, I do agree that his post was rude and uncalled for indeed. I wonder if the people in IDA know about his posts on ur blog... that would be interesting... heh.
i side with michelle on this, you can´t say nick is equally guilty for this flamewar as jseng is. yes nick´s fighting back but he´s defending himself on his own site, not running over to some other guy´s blog and slandering him with unprovoked spite.
jseng: regarding how my earlier argument (that you yourself sound like an elitist narrowminded individual) doesn´t hold water. your own point of view as a person on the world in general might not be as ´narrowminded´ as nick´s, but you sure as hell sound like a narrowminded person when you flame him just because he dares to criticise your ´baby´, tomorrow.sg. be more open-minded and learn to accept people´s constructive criticism, instead of reacting like a parochial childish flamer.
I'm an anonymous coward...
I think both parties are at fault here.
So.. Jseng and Whoever is arguing over this issue.... can juz go kill each other...
Jseng stands for his own version of free speech.. whoever stands for another version of free speech... that's why it's call free speech...
Tat's the problem with free speech.. there's no right or wrong...
However..if we want to comment on whether the article ..is moral..ethical.. we might be able to resolve the issue a little bit more objectively.
Nic...
Just recommended this article to tomorrow.sg for posting..
If Jseng really believes in freedom of speech.. he will have to put that up..
http://sing-a-pore.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_sing-a-pore_archive.html#110994171725060367
abstract:
Mr Lee cited Dr Chee’s surreptitious recording of his conversation with Dr S Vasoo, former PAP MP and the one who initiated Dr Chee’s sacking, as evidence to support his accusation of Dr Chee. Mr Lee, in his interrogatory, asked Dr Chee the following questions:...(*snip*)
Mr Lee had used a tape recording of a Law Society meeting convened to debate the Legal Profession (Amendment) Act. If he considers his own action of taping the conversations of others as good and right then he cannot possibly accuse Dr Chee of being “a fraud, a liar and a cheat” for doing what exactly what Mr Lee himself did. For this reason, Dr Chee has asked Mr Lee the following: (*snip*)
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